I would like to share a recent devotional, and get your thoughts on it.
Heb. 6:1 (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works,
The literal definition of the word repent is “to perceive afterwards.” I may have developed a sinful habit before I came to Christ. The opportunity to repent came once I understood that the habit was sinful. If, however, I commit that act again, now knowing that it is wrong, there is no further opportunity for repentance, for I knew that it was wrong before I committed the act. At that point, I must ask for forgiveness. Consider Paul’s statement: “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” The process of renewing is not repetitive. The need is not for the Lord to have to renew us again and again; the need is for us to live a renewed life once He has touched us. Each time I knowingly transgress, I make His crucifixion of no effect. So, then, I must ask a question each time I must choose between satisfying God or satisfying myself: Which is more important – to satisfy myself, or to prevent Christ from being put to an open shame? The key to living a Spirit-filled life lies in the answer to this question.
Let me know your thoughts on this!
21 comments:
This is the part that confuses me, you wrote:
"If, however, I commit that act again, now knowing that it is wrong, there is no further opportunity for repentance, for I knew that it was wrong before I committed the act."
Are you saying that we have no further opportunity to repent if we commit the same sin over and over? I don't think I can agree with that. I don't think there is ever a time that God will not forgive us...YET it is a scary thought that we would knowingly continue to hurt him again and again, that means we did not truly repent....? I'm confused.
Ron, this is a very interesting thought...one which I have never considered in quite this way. Perhaps because I always (in my mind) thought of repentance more of a precursor to asking forgiveness. To see if I am understanding correctly (and I think I am with you)...if I am involved in a specific sinful behavior, then I will come to Christ with a repentant heart when I ask Him into my life as my Savior. However, after that time, if I choose to engage in that behavior again, I know it is sinful and against God's way for my life, so I need to ask forgiveness, but the act of repentance was done early at the point of my salvation? i.e., I "repented" of my sins and was clenased by Christ? Am I catching your point?
Jimmy
I'm sorry to say that this post depresses me. I agree it's not about being repetatively renewed but living a renewed life. It's not about sinning and saying sorry. But to repentance can happen no matter where you've been. The idea of repentance to the Rabbi's goes hand in hand with sacrifice. sacrifice was repetative, so why can't T'shuva (repentance) be repetative.
And about forgiveness. Do you believe God is a God who says "Nope, I'm not going to forgive you until you ask" (while tappping His foot)? Or did christ die, was His blood shed for the forgiveness of sinns? Did Christ not die for the whole world? Forgiveness is not the difining mark of saved and unsaved. If you're human you're forgiven but you will indeed "reep what you sow" You will get what you persue.If you persue Hell you'll get it. If you persue Heaven you'll get it.
(that's just what i believe)
I hope I didn't rant too much. great blog.
Well Woman,
Thank you for your comments. First, let me say there is a clear distinction between forgiveness and repentance. The one who is offended has the power to forgive. The offender has the ability to repent.
Did a person truly repent the first they recognized an act was wrong? Only the Lord knows for sure, but it is possible for a person to repent and then knowingly repeat the same act at some point in the future. It is at that future occurrence that asking for forgiveness is appropriate, because the person knew that act was wrong before they committed it.
I hope that explains it a little better.
Jimmy,
I am with you, my friend! The actual Greek word for repentance is metanoia, which comes from the word metanoeo, which literally means to think differently or afterwards. The first word, metanoia, implies reversal of a person's decision. So, the moment that I recognize that an act was wrong is the moment that I repent. If I knowingly commit that act in the future, I knew it was wrong before I committed the act, so I could not repent, because I knew it was wrong before I did it. I can ask for forgiveness, however, for committing the act. As I said to well woman, there is a distinction between repentance and forgiveness.
Hi Wes,
I appreciate your comments, and do not consider it ranting at all! I appreciate the fact that you brought in the word T'shuva, because it confirms the importance of understanding the Greek and Hebrew words in the Bible. In my response to Jimmy, I explained the word that is used in the New Testament, and the fact that there is a clear distinction between repentance and forgiveness. Let's keep in touch and grow together regarding this issue!
wow this is good!!! Okay, I think I understand because it goes back to where Paul said the thing I do I hate and that thing that I should do, I don't do.
Paul had repented, he had turned away from that behavior, but apparently he sometimes fell so he had to continually recognize his sin and ask for forgiveness.
When we repented we turned away from our sin, we wanted to change, but our spirit was reborn but we still have the sinful flesh so sometimes we allow it to control us, however God has given us a way out each and every time we are confronted with temptation (1 Cor. 10:13), but we still struggle, our battle is to struggle well and not give into temptation, thereby, the temptation to sin will get weaker. Does that make sense?
I mean if we practice righteousness daily, guarding our thoughts and affections we actually will win the battle most of the time, but we will never be perfect until that which is perfect comes.
Great Post Ron, has got me thinking here!!!
Let me see if I can summarize what you are saying so as to see if I understand your point.
You are saying that repentance is perceiving afterwards or thinking differently/afterwards or recognizing that an action is wrong. Since this is repentance this can only occur once. I can only recognize that my lust is sinful once. It is ridiculous to speak of a daily recognition that the act of me lusting after another is sin; recognition comes once.
However, the asking for forgiveness can come again and again. Although I have recognized that my behavior was sin once, each time that I do this behavior I should ask forgiveness for it.
Is this your view? If so I would disagree.
I am not disagreeing based upon your point presenting. Indeed a recgonition of one's sin can only occur once. As I have said, it is ridiculous to say that I repeatedly recognize that the act of lust is sin, you cannot recognize the same thing over and over.
I am disagreeing based upon your equivocation of the word repent. Repentance as Biblically understood is not a simply 'recognition' or a 'perceiving afterward'. Repentance is a turning away. The simple act of only recognizing ones sin is better said to be 'attrition' whereas 'contrition' is the Biblically mandated repentance.
It is not simply a recognizing without any manner of action to follow. A complete recognition of the sin's horrid nature and a turning to the One who is better than all is what repentance is.
Have you never heard of the different sides of the same coin, repentance and faith? Repentance is the turning from the sin, faith is the turning to God. They are able to be seperated theoretically, but technically and Scripturally they are one and the same act.
Your thoughts are good, your vocabulary just needs to be changed a little.
Wes Ellis,
You said this:
"Do you believe God is a God who says "Nope, I'm not going to forgive you until you ask" (while tappping His foot)?"
and yet you say this as well:
"If you persue Heaven you'll get it."
Pardon the confusion arroused by such blatantly confusing words.
You apparently oppose the idea that God is 'tapping His foot' and withholding forgiveness to people unless they ask. You further this thought by saying that Christ died for all and for the forgiveness of the world. Indicating that not only are all forgiven (as Christ died for their forgiveness) but likewise that God has given them forgiveness (as He is not 'tapping His foot' and witholding unless they ask). Which is all good and fine if you were constant in this belief.
But you are not.
You then say that those who pursue hell get hell and those that pursue heaven get heaven.
But how can this be?
If one is forgiven, shouldn't it matter not at all if they pursue Hell? They have been forgiven, what basis then are they sent to Hell?
Likewise, if God does not withhold forgiveness especially not doing so waiting upon the recepient to ask, then it would naturally follow that all get heaven regardless of whether they pursue it or not. After all, God is not 'tapping His foot' and waiting on them to ask, He is freely bestowing it upon all...
You say one thing and then say the opposite...my confusion is necessarily understandable.
sofyst,
Thanks for your confusion, now I can explain.
Take no offence if it sounds like I think I know what I'm talking about. I'm simply giving what I believe.
You obviousely see Hell as a punnishment.
Hell In a Jewish understanding is simply a result not a punishment. Does that make sense? Check out the words in Hebrew sometime. there are about four used in the Old Testament They all describe a pit which was not dug by God but by man. Hell Is metaphorically described as "a pit he dug for himself."
I'm not contradicting myself if you share my understanding of the text.
Another thing the Jews believe, as do I, is that Heaven and Hell are here and go on into eternity. We see Hell (and try not to think of this as a place but a state of being) all around us. Have you heard about Darfur or Rawanda. Hell is where things are completely screwed up, no where near where God wants it to be.
Now, we have Hell in our lives. There are rotten places inside us that are not the way they're supposed to be. God's plan is for us to be healed, restored. Awesome huh?
We see heaven too (please try not to think of this as a place) or we see glimpses I should say. Have you ever experienced any kind of beauty? Have you ever seen love acted out? peace, compassion, hope... these things cannot be overcome by darkness they exsist in the darkess and go unreconized. They are in harmony with God.
Our task is to bring heaven here, not to go there someday. If you read Revelation 21 He wil come here. "My dwelling place will be with man."
About forgiveness... You can be fully forgiven and persue Hell and recieve it. God is standing at the door knocking, not so he can forgive you but that you may be healed. He wants you to persue heaven. Part of being healed is knowing you're forgiven. Have you ever had a conflict with a friend and then didn't see him or her for a while afterward? That's the worst feeling because you don't know what it's gonna be like next time you see them. are they going to forgive you? you don't know. so, what if your friend forgave you right afterward? would that change thw bad feeling you have? no. You're already forgiven you just don't know it. Knowing it changes everything it frees you.
repentance, T'shuva, simply means to bo back. Shuva literally means return. When Jesus said "repent for the kingdom of heaven is here" (or at hand)he was saying return to the life God originally intended for you, the life of heaven. Now, the Rabbi's at this time saw the Torah as the "way, the truth and the life" it way the way to the father, back to the "Olam Habah" (litereally "the life to come" but it was always talked about as in the past implying the life of eden.)Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life" meaning He was the way to the Father to the Olam Habah.
Jesus way is the only way. Following Him "gets us there" so to speak, not just being forgiven by Him.
Forgiveness is required but the battle is over, haleluiah. Now there is a ne battle. Implementing that forgiveness, is our task. "we've been given the ministry of reconciliation" the task to rebuild the world, to restore it, to Bring heaven here.
Hell is not a punnishment, it's a natural consequece for "what direction you're going." Are you returning to the Olam Habah or living in the shame of your past? Are you burdened? are you persueing Hell?
"Come to me..." Jesus said... "All you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest."
sofyst,
Great points. I do agree that it is not the mere recognition. There is a remorse that occurs as well. Look at Judas; the Bible tells us that he repented after recognizing his betrayal of Christ. Thank you for causing me to make that clear.
The concern that I have is that the body of Christ does not have a clear understanding of turning away, either. Many turn away, then turn right back. Do they repent again? No, because they knew it was wrong when they turned back into it.
Wes, I must say you have some thought provoking statements! I really want to continue dialogue with you, because it is through these types of exchanges that we all can come into a better understanding of God. Thank you for adding value to this discussion.
Ron sorry to weigh in so late on this one but Katrina had us tied up. ;-)
Kristi just posted on this topic as well and I share her understanding.
Kc,
Thanks for the update! Hey, I already put Kristi's blog on my links! This is a great subject, and I think some really great dialogue can be stimulated. What do you think?
Wes,
From the book of Hitgalut (Revelation):
GNT-TR
και ο θανατος και ο αδης εβληθησαν εις την λιμνην του πυρος ουτος εστιν ο δευτερος θανατος
NKJV
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. This is the second death.
You're right about Hell (Hades), but I believe you're only presenting A main Jewish view. And it is A, not THE. We even see from the Brit Chadashah (NT) that there were Pharisees and Sadducees, a main division in Jewish thought dating at least since Yahshua's time. Now we even have Reformed Jewish thought & Orthodox. I just wanted to make people aware of that, so that they know your work is valid scholarly work, but not the only corner on the market so to speak.
It's a blessing to read your posts and thoughts.
Shalom,
Richard
Ron I am so glad to see so many willing to discuss their understanding without prejudice and fear. I pray that through this dialog and by His grace we all can come to a more full understanding of scripture. It is a blessing for me personally in so many ways. ;-)
Interesting post and comments.
First let me state I am not commenting to "argue".
What I think is some problem here is the scripture used. I understand this scripture in Hebrews to relate to those "falling" away from trusting in the finished work of Christ on the cross for forgiveness and salvation. If we have already repented of unbelief in Christ (turn from unbelief to belief), it is impossible to believe again, this is a one time act of being born again. We cannot crucify Christ everytime we fall away. It is an insult to say what our Lord did was not sufficiant enough to save us for all time. When Jesus said on the cross: "it is finished" or "paid in full" He meant it.
The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians that were considering going back to temple sacrifices and failing to believe Gods promises. It relates to us when we fall from living by grace to try to do good works to justify our relationship with God. It is God Himself in Christ who established our relationship to start with. (grace through faith and that not of ourselves).
Now the issue of repentance of sins. We repent (change our mind) of certain sins when we have a Godly sorrow over the sin. Godly sorrow does not come by God or "so called junior Holy Spirits" beating us over the head with the law and telling us how bad we are. Its Gods kindness that leads us to repentance. If we are His children then refusing to repent brings discipline (not punishment or "God getting even"). Gods ways are higher than our ways. He is not like us when we try to tell each other how bad we are and use the law and Christ death on the cross to heap loads of guilt and shame on each other. God says "neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more". When we knowingly sin the first thing we need to do is run to the cross for relief just like they went to look at the brazen serpent in the wilderness. Not run to the cross to be shamed, the cross takes away our shame. The danger we have as children of God, is not repenting and believing Gods promises, which results in a harden heart and not living our Christian life this side of eternity in the rest He wants us to have. This is the warning in book of Hebrews.
Heb. 6:1 (krv) Now that we know that God loves us unconditionally, lets pursue what He wants to do in our lives, not trying to be good enough has the foundation of Gods acceptance.
Wes,
I agree with you!
This is a very interesting discussion.
Which of you sincerely believes your interpretation of repentance is wrong but you will stick to it anyway?
I suspect each of you believes you are correct and will not change your belief.
So my question is: What do we do about such disagreements over doctrine? Do we just ignore them? Can we resolve them? Can we find common ground?
Where do we find the unity for which Christ prayed in John 17?
Joe I honestly believe if we could reach agreement on individual rights and responsibilities, the function or commission of the Church, and the purpose of government we would have harmony between the brethren. I suspect that is impossible so we should probably strive to love God and one another. ;-)
I agree, it would be nice to find unity on all issues, but let's face it--it won't happen in this lifetime! So, I apply this principle that my pastor taught me "On major things you must exercise unity; minor things exercise harmony; in all things exercise charity." That helps me to remember that if it is a fundamental doctine, yes, we must agree, or we will have problems. If it's not major, agree to get along, and in all things, love your brothers and sister in Christ!
What spirited discussion! Joe, let me first say what an inspiration you have been. I am privileged to know you and so many others who love the Lord in the blogsphere!
Next, while I cannot speak for others, I can say that I know I do not have all the answers. So the purpose for me is to discuss, so that I may see what others are saying. That is how I grow. Let me give you an example. When I was younger in Christ, I used to think that the "born of water" that Jesus referred to in John 3 was baptism. As I read other versions of the Bible, and some commentaries, I came to understand that born of water meant natural birth. How was it confirmed to me? First, the context in which it was spoken. Second, the fact that Jesus did not use the term "born of water" when referring to baptism anywhere else in the New Testament. Now, some still believe that it means baptism. Is it my job to prove them wrong? No! But, can we obtain a greater understanding by discussing it? Yes! We will not all agree - just look at Romans 14. Yet, I am not to allow my faith to cause someone else to stumble. I pray that we can keep the spirited dialogue going, that we can be strengthened and edified. I hope this helps!
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