First, a big thank you for all who posted on the issue of repentance. I believe there is so much that we can learn from one another on that subject. Joe really brought out a profound point which I believe that we all should consider. Do we discuss to be right, or try to persuade someone to think the way we think, or are we able to yield ourselves to one another, with the goal of understanding one another?
These blogs have been such an inspiration to me. I wish I could meet so many of those who have shared thoughts and ideas, because I feel as if this really is an extended family. Those who I agree with, and those with whom I differ, all are important to me. So, before I get to teary-eyed, let me pose the following question:
CHURCH AND ORGANIZED RELIGION - ARE THEY THE SAME?
Now, I am not yet going to post any Scriptures (at least for now), but I would like to hear what you think. I ask this question, because there seems to be quite a bit of debate about church on many of the blogs. Some claim to be sick and tired of it, others want nothing to do with it, others say they need it. Now, before I proceed any further, let me make a couple of points clear. I believe that there is only one true church, that being the Body of Christ, of which we are all members. I also believe that the fellowships that we call churches are part of the organized religion that I am asking about. Those are the man-made organizations, and I can see why many are disappointed with those. But, I really want to hear from you. What do you think?
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I grew up nominally Methodist and spent most of my life in public school, but was strongly influenced by the evangelical high school I spent my last three years at. I grew disenchanted with my church specifically, I didn't feel they were going in the direction I wanted to be. But I have not been able to find an organized denomination that agrees with my admitted hodgepodge of beliefs. I don't expect to agree with everything a particular sect teaches, but the search for one that fits has been frustrating. I guess you could say that organized religion hasn't suited me well for a while. My beliefs haven't wavered, though, despite te lack of a real life community that shares them.
Nettie,
Thanks for commenting. So do you think there is a difference between church and organized religion?
Yes, I do. I know I am a member of God's church, the church of saved people. And I would say this of several people I know that are drifting from churches right now. Maybe it's because they're at aren't sure what they believe, as far as doctrines go; or maybe they, like me, haven't been able to find a church that fits. But I don't think that negates their salvation in any way- once you've made the step of asking God into your heart, I think it would take a lot more than not being part of an organized religion to no longer be part of God's church. If that makes sense.
Not1Jot said it right, if you can tell the difference, you must be reading and meditating on the Word. Shouldn't that be the norm for a Christian? Sure there's a difference in the Church and organized religion. I attend a Pentecostal church, and I do it for the fellowship of believers and for the Word being preached. I was saved in a Baptist church. It doesn't matter where I go to church. I judge every thing that is done, said, or preached by the Word. It wouldn't matter if I was in a synagogue in a Jewish service or a Baptist or a Pentecostal, or whatever, I will know if God's Spirit is there.
Like it has been said, organized religion is man-made. Denominations are man-made. The Church is God-made. Yet, that doesn't mean I don't go to the church to worship and hear the Word of God. It simply means that I must let the Spirit guide me as to what goes on while i'm there.
Anyone who belongs to Him is a member of the Body of Christ, called the church.
True, some people are spleens, but they are body-parts nonetheless.
I'm not sure why the concept of "the organized church" is such an anamatha to some people.
If you read Nehemiah, you find him being a hyper-organized person. The NT tells us to let all things be done in order.
Organization just means that you put your socks on BEFORE you put on your shoes (I'll bet most of you do it that way.}
God is big. He can lead moment-by-moment or century-by-century. (If He can't, we're worshiping the wrong entity). In fact, He can lead eternity-to-eternity, whatever that means.
So, properly understood, the organized church is the Body of Christ doing the worship and service thing in an orderly fashion.
Whether or not it is meaningful depends upon whether it is or is not Spirit led.
Church and Organized Religion are not the same.
I agree with Joe though..
Church and Organized Church are the same, if the organized church is Spirit led.
I'll attempt to not allow my cynicism over organised religion to seep in.
However, I sincerely believe that the majority of "organised" religion is not spirit-led. It is, rather, more interested in manipulating the scriptures to serve its belief over others. While it ought not be that way, the world has a way of tearing down what should be and building its own (badly distorted) version of it. There are a number of examples I could site, but I started to name a few and realised I was rambling. So I deleted them and ended it here. I'll compile a more concise listing and post it on my own blog in a week or so... just didn't want to clutter your comments with it.
Joe took my thunder too. ;-)
This is one of those subjects that deserves a blog-post of its own, and maybe I'll do one some day.
"Church and Organized Religion - Are They the Same?"
The question reminds me very much of Will Rogers' famous statement: I'm don't belong to an organized political party; I'm a democrat. Similarly, I don't belong to an organized religious body; I'm a Southern Baptist.
"Church and Organized Religion - Are They the Same?"
the truth of the matter is... it really doesn't matter. the only people who would even care to make a distinction between the two are the very people who go to them.
but hey, what do i know...
eddie
i agree with much of what everyone has said.
i think it should be noted that if we are living a lifestyle of worship and faith and we are sincerely endeavoring to follow Him and to be like Him, then we can do so in or out of organized religion.
we can maintain relationships with people within a local church without holding any allegiance or obligation to a denomination. we can "be" the "Church" within the structure of an organized religion without being tainted by it.
i think that's a personal thing. some can be effective for the Kingdom within such a structure. some can be more effective for the Kingdom if they were not associated with "those" church people. some people really need to distance themselves from organized religion for their own sake and faith. some people have friends that will never ever go to a church but will come over for dinner for conversation.
Even George Barna (with his new book coming out - Revolution) can affirm that the mass exodus of people leaving organized religion are in fact not leaving Jesus.
many of us can run away from organized religion - (and rightly so, in my opinion) - but we ought to be honest with ourselves ...
*are we using it as an excuse to not follow Jesus?
*are we indeed looking for fresher ways of living out our faith?
*are we just looking for a place that will tell us what we want to hear and will move on if they start saying something that makes us uncomfortable?
*is our exodus from organized religion leaving us isolated from fellowship? or are we continuing to remain connected with those who can speak into our lives, challenge us, stretch us, sharpen us?
i'm a "think-outside-the-box" kind of person and in terms of Church - i'd rather have my handcuffs removed and be free to live out my faith. but if a person is simply "detoxing" from a bad experience at a local church, they are better off not leaving that church and dealing with the issues. otherwise, they'll never be satisfied any where.
if that's not the case....fly, friend, fly!
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